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I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
Sorry, I should have changed it in my last post, but don't worry. Lots of people will see this.
>I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't >seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name >is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
Just finished watching all 7 parts This is huge.
The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> Just finished watching all 7 parts > This is huge.
> The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> Arnie Lerma
Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are looking for answers and then they leave because they claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > This is huge.
> > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > Arnie Lerma
> Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
Oh, give him a break. In one of the early segments, he talks about his former marriage, and how inhibited he was. He told his story honestly to the best of his ability, and is still in the process of deprogramming.
> People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > looking for answers and then they leave because they > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> > > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > > This is huge.
> > > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > > Arnie Lerma
> > Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> Oh, give him a break. In one of the early segments, he talks about his > former marriage, and how inhibited he was. He told his story honestly > to the best of his ability, and is still in the process of > deprogramming.
I would like to. It seems like every time you turn a page on A.R.S. these days you are turning up these stories of like:
"Well when I was in the Sea Org all I did was break 5 people's noses whose ethics were out" or "As Captain of my org I only kicked 8 women instead of 10 like DM".
They are very scary misadjusted people at first it seems.
I am not a deprogrammer and never will be because it is not up to me to decide what is in the best interest of another person.
All I can say, is that when I finally came to my senses about Scientology publicly I was very suspicious of all critics, wondering how they could have gathered their viewpoints without any actual experience in the cult. Today I am much lighter of a person realizing that what has happened to me can happen to another and therefore I should be more understanding. But, in Aaron's case, what happened to me did not happen to him, he is one of aggressor's.
In time we shall see if he comes forward with a way to improve upon what has already happened on this Earth with this cult. Read" The Diary Of A Scientologist"
> I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
That was the most incredible interview I've seen to date. Very powerful.
> > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > This is huge.
> > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > Arnie Lerma
> Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > looking for answers and then they leave because they > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally ill or just retarded?
Anne Frank, of Diary fame, also wrote extensively on her sexual feelings, which were more detailed in an updated version that was released around 1980. I thought Aaron was eloquent in describing how totalitarian cockamamie can pervert a young person's normal sexual curiosity and damage its development. Let's get it straight who was being the total nutcase about sex, using it to control, intimidate and blackmail members.Making policies about it. Doing sec checks about it. It was Hubbard. Out 2D for jerking off. Holy Xenu, Hubbard was one twisted nutcase.
I'm sorry Larry but your comment shows you are a weird duck. Of course, I picked that up from the epically weird story on your website as well. Everyone's story is important, including yours, but I'm telling you as an outsider to cuckoo cult, Aaron's is ground breaking in its honesty, candor AND content. This story, as he told it, is going to shake the very foundation of the cult and how it operates. I have not seen anything quite as powerful in the hundreds of videos I've watched.
> > > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > > This is huge.
> > > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > > Arnie Lerma
> > Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> > People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > > looking for answers and then they leave because they > > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally > ill or just retarded?
> Anne Frank, of Diary fame, also wrote extensively on her sexual > feelings, which were more detailed in an updated version that was > released around 1980. I thought Aaron was eloquent in describing how > totalitarian cockamamie can pervert a young person's normal sexual > curiosity and damage its development. Let's get it straight who was > being the total nutcase about sex, using it to control, intimidate and > blackmail members.Making policies about it. Doing sec checks about > it. It was Hubbard. Out 2D for jerking off. Holy Xenu, Hubbard was > one twisted nutcase.
> I'm sorry Larry but your comment shows you are a weird duck. Of > course, I picked that up from the epically weird story on your website > as well. Everyone's story is important, including yours, but I'm > telling you as an outsider to cuckoo cult, Aaron's is ground breaking > in its honesty, candor AND content. This story, as he told it, is > going to shake the very foundation of the cult and how it operates. I > have not seen anything quite as powerful in the hundreds of videos > I've watched.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with Astrid. It is not even a matter of needing to like the guy. There were a couple of moments during the interview that were genuinely scary- where the mask of civilization slipped for a second or two and it was possible to see a savage tyrant underneath.
Nevertheless the guy WANTS TO BE NORMAL and there is nothing more you can ask of a person. We are all saddled with our pasts and our natures. I was impressed by his great honesty and I think he will make it.
Yes.. there was a lack of empathy between him and the interviewer. In fact he was interviewing himself and continueing on the sex track regadless. We must remember that the interviewer was not actually an interviewer but a former public Scientologist.
i too agree with astrid. When I was hearing about the sexual stuff, for a minute I had a similar response to Larry but after watching more, I realzed that what I was witnessing was exactly HOW disfunctional this guy's sexuality had gotten and how sad it was.
What I appreciate from him also was the fact that he - unlike Marty Rathbun - is in no denial about his own role in abuse. And I appreciate him calling Rathbun and Rinder out on theiur stories of how DM abused them - as if they were the victims. Take that Rathbun!
> > > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > > This is huge.
> > > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > > Arnie Lerma
> > Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> > People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > > looking for answers and then they leave because they > > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally > ill or just retarded?
> Anne Frank, of Diary fame, also wrote extensively on her sexual > feelings, which were more detailed in an updated version that was > released around 1980. I thought Aaron was eloquent in describing how > totalitarian cockamamie can pervert a young person's normal sexual > curiosity and damage its development. Let's get it straight who was > being the total nutcase about sex, using it to control, intimidate and > blackmail members.Making policies about it. Doing sec checks about > it. It was Hubbard. Out 2D for jerking off. Holy Xenu, Hubbard was > one twisted nutcase.
> I'm sorry Larry but your comment shows you are a weird duck. Of > course, I picked that up from the epically weird story on your website > as well. Everyone's story is important, including yours, but I'm > telling you as an outsider to cuckoo cult, Aaron's is ground breaking > in its honesty, candor AND content. This story, as he told it, is > going to shake the very foundation of the cult and how it operates. I > have not seen anything quite as powerful in the hundreds of videos > I've watched.- Hide quoted text -
On Nov 20, 5:19 pm, slobeck <polymorp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> i too agree with astrid. When I was hearing about the sexual stuff, > for a minute I had a similar response to Larry but after watching more, > I realzed that what I was witnessing was exactly HOW disfunctional this > guy's sexuality had gotten and how sad it was.
> What I appreciate from him also was the fact that he - unlike Marty > Rathbun - is in no denial about his own role in abuse. And I appreciate > him calling Rathbun and Rinder out on theiur stories of how DM abused > them - as if they were the victims. Take that Rathbun!
> slø
Repressing sex amongst those with the highest natural levels of testosterone.. helps to create monsters.
This was part of the real "Tech" used to build scientology...
"Curtailing sexual behavior has been held accountable not just for the behavior of some individuals who are excessively violent but for high levels of aggressiveness in entire cultures"
I read your f'n story twice Larry. Give it a rest.
Aaron segued from draconian rules on sexual behavior imposed by Hubbard as a means of control under the guise of a moral code -- I don’t think the Victorians were as hung up about masturbation and petting as Hubbard -- to how it affected his adult sexuality. It was an admission of courage, meaningfulness and candor.
These rules come from the guy with three wives who had his little teen messengers running around in hot pants and bare midriff s on his ship. Anyone who is not brain damaged see any irony there?
Aaron moved on to tie it in with how sexual information -- both from auditing or revealed in forced sec checks for 2D violations -- can be used to extract obedience or hold someone in fear, binding them to the cult.
He explained how if a non-Scientologist tells a member of the cult something, and that person asks a question about it, or it comes up as some kind sec check as a doubt, then they are not only required to reveal who that person is and what they said, but the members is afraid to have contact with any outside person, because it will just result in having to undergo sec checking and punishment.
You don’t need a move to Guyana Bulgravia when you have mind-slavery like that going on.
That Aaron admitted to enjoying the control, power over a person, and even making them afraid and hurting them. And admitting how that often screwed him up on a number of levels, sexual included, is pure honesty. That's some karma. Scientology doesn't work, at least in the Sea Org.
Once you are turned into a robot, put in one of these administrative positions, to work long hours “to get the job done” and just make others “get the job done,” there’s so little love and tangible satisfaction, that person’s only feeling, that they are human at all, is when they hurt someone or instill fear in them. When you are turned into a machine, that is the only feeling left.
Pretty much everyone who isn’t saintly has the potential to do that, given the right circumstances. It is called being human.
Let’s go back to another totalitarian group, one which took it much further in disposing of the low toned “quietly and without sorrow,” thinking they were clearing the planet.
A teen in 1936 goes through Hitler youth, because his father is a high ranking SS official. When he graduates from high school, his father decides his son should join the SS instead of the Army. He thinks it may be safer for his son, keep him away from battle fronts. The kid does his share of dirty work, including work where he learns some heady details about the extermination camps.
Before the war ends, he finds he can’t take it anymore. He’s been assigned to do something more ghastly, or just gets fed up, and he flees to England and goes to the press or to Parliament and starts testifying to the horror he got wrapped in.
Not only did this not really happen during the war, you’d be hard pressed to find members of the SS or Gestapo who confessed or admitted to guilt, gleeful or otherwise, after the war. Instead they were all...just following orders.
So, think of Hubbard’s war to defeat the evil psychs and clear the planet, and Aaron is coming out before it is over, not leaking drips and drabs between detours to Mahalia Jackon and St. Francis, but spilling a boatload of secrets.
Aaron is telling everything he knows. Compare that to Rinder for goodness sake. What’s he owned up to, about two or three things, out of hundreds he could talk about. Nothing of a personal nature.
I understand Aaron, more than I understand Monica P. for example. Monica, smart and with the opportunities she had to continue her education, doing RPF in the engine room, undergoing humiliation ceremonies. And with parents wanting her out of the cult…
Aaron didn’t have any of that going for him. He was trapped. Now he’s expressing some very personal feelings, and to anyone who is emotional, and sympathetic, his testimony is going to resonate.
Heber J., after accusing Dennis of being on drugs, on the set of the interview, when asked something about Scientology, he went into some bizarre speech about all the love it has given him for everyone. That’s after he’s attacking the CAN lady, attacking Dennis, acting like a loon about his mother being insulted.
Now is that what DM, Marty, and Aaron were really like in the Sea Org, or is it more like Aaron says it is. People have very shaky relationships, because you can’t get too close, or you’ll be reported on. So you just throw yourself into your work, like a machine. It's not like you can get away from it, by going home to your Sea Org wife and being a human being...the dysfunction carries through there too.
Was Hubbard full of “infinite kindness” as Joe Urqufart claims, or was he the guy on the taped phone recordings, blowing his stack because the girl got the wrong damn map, and issuing orders about espionage and hauling in the money.
By “infinite kindness” Joe Urqufart explains that Hubbard had a lot of faults, but people will forget all those -- about him being a compulsive liar etc., but his tech will be used to save the planet…
> > > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > > This is huge.
> > > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > > Arnie Lerma
> > Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> > People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > > looking for answers and then they leave because they > > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally > ill or just retarded?
<snip>
Lawrence has always been problematic for this newsgroup. That's the politest thing I can say.
> > > > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > > > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > > > This is huge.
> > > > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > > > Arnie Lerma
> > > Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > > > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > > > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > > > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > > > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > > > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > > > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> > > People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > > > looking for answers and then they leave because they > > > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
> > Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally > > ill or just retarded?
> <snip>
> Lawrence has always been problematic for this newsgroup. That's the > politest thing I can say.
> I read your f'n story twice Larry. Give it a rest.
> Aaron segued from draconian rules on sexual behavior imposed by > Hubbard as a means of control under the guise of a moral code -- I > don’t think the Victorians were as hung up about masturbation and > petting as Hubbard -- to how it affected his adult sexuality. It was > an admission of courage, meaningfulness and candor.
> These rules come from the guy with three wives who had his little teen > messengers running around in hot pants and bare midriff s on his ship. > Anyone who is not brain damaged see any irony there?
> Aaron moved on to tie it in with how sexual information -- both from > auditing or revealed in forced sec checks for 2D violations -- can be > used to extract obedience or hold someone in fear, binding them to the > cult.
> He explained how if a non-Scientologist tells a member of the cult > something, and that person asks a question about it, or it comes up as > some kind sec check as a doubt, then they are not only required to > reveal who that person is and what they said, but the members is > afraid to have contact with any outside person, because it will just > result in having to undergo sec checking and punishment.
> You don’t need a move to Guyana Bulgravia when you have mind-slavery > like that going on.
> That Aaron admitted to enjoying the control, power over a person, and > even making them afraid and hurting them. And admitting how that often > screwed him up on a number of levels, sexual included, is pure > honesty. That's some karma. Scientology doesn't work, at least in the > Sea Org.
> Once you are turned into a robot, put in one of these administrative > positions, to work long hours “to get the job done” and just make > others “get the job done,” there’s so little love and tangible > satisfaction, that person’s only feeling, that they are human at all, > is when they hurt someone or instill fear in them. When you are turned > into a machine, that is the only feeling left.
> Pretty much everyone who isn’t saintly has the potential to do that, > given the right circumstances. It is called being human.
> Let’s go back to another totalitarian group, one which took it much > further in disposing of the low toned “quietly and without sorrow,” > thinking they were clearing the planet.
> A teen in 1936 goes through Hitler youth, because his father is a high > ranking SS official. When he graduates from high school, his father > decides his son should join the SS instead of the Army. He thinks it > may be safer for his son, keep him away from battle fronts. The kid > does his share of dirty work, including work where he learns some > heady details about the extermination camps.
> Before the war ends, he finds he can’t take it anymore. He’s been > assigned to do something more ghastly, or just gets fed up, and he > flees to England and goes to the press or to Parliament and starts > testifying to the horror he got wrapped in.
> Not only did this not really happen during the war, you’d be hard > pressed to find members of the SS or Gestapo who confessed or admitted > to guilt, gleeful or otherwise, after the war. Instead they were > all...just following orders.
> So, think of Hubbard’s war to defeat the evil psychs and clear the > planet, and Aaron is coming out before it is over, not leaking drips > and drabs between detours to Mahalia Jackon and St. Francis, but > spilling a boatload of secrets.
> Aaron is telling everything he knows. Compare that to Rinder for > goodness sake. What’s he owned up to, about two or three things, out > of hundreds he could talk about. Nothing of a personal nature.
> I understand Aaron, more than I understand Monica P. for example. > Monica, smart and with the opportunities she had to continue her > education, doing RPF in the engine room, undergoing humiliation > ceremonies. And with parents wanting her out of the cult…
> Aaron didn’t have any of that going for him. He was trapped. Now he’s > expressing some very personal feelings, and to anyone who is > emotional, and sympathetic, his testimony is going to resonate.
> Heber J., after accusing Dennis of being on drugs, on the set of the > interview, when asked something about Scientology, he went into some > bizarre speech about all the love it has given him for everyone. > That’s after he’s attacking the CAN lady, attacking Dennis, acting > like a loon about his mother being insulted.
> Now is that what DM, Marty, and Aaron were really like in the Sea Org, > or is it more like Aaron says it is. People have very shaky > relationships, because you can’t get too close, or you’ll be reported > on. So you just throw yourself into your work, like a machine. It's > not like you can get away from it, by going home to your Sea Org wife > and being a human being...the dysfunction carries through there too.
> Was Hubbard full of “infinite kindness” as Joe Urqufart claims, or was > he the guy on the taped phone recordings, blowing his stack because > the girl got the wrong damn map, and issuing orders about espionage > and hauling in the money.
> By “infinite kindness” Joe Urqufart explains that Hubbard had a lot of > faults, but people will forget all those -- about him being a > compulsive liar etc., but his tech will be used to save the planet…
We've had many stories of exes who were victims. They all sound sincere when they describe the terrible things that happened to them, but rarely did they admit to the crimes they themselves committed. (No I don't assume all Scientologists have committed crimes, just that a lot more have, than have been willing to admit.)
Aaron's account smacks of honesty, he held nothing back. He described how he was both the master and the slave and the effect that had on him. We now have the most complete story of what really occurs inside the seaOrg. We now know that David Miscavage is not the problem. DM is just a product of the system and if he were to be removed another would simply take his place and carry on just as DM did. We now know that the complete structure of Scientology must be disassembled.
Believe in thetans, Xenu, the joy of auditing all you want, but the seaOrg must be destroyed as an institution.
> I read your f'n story twice Larry. Give it a rest.
> Aaron segued from draconian rules on sexual behavior imposed by > Hubbard as a means of control under the guise of a moral code -- I > don’t think the Victorians were as hung up about masturbation and > petting as Hubbard -- to how it affected his adult sexuality. It was > an admission of courage, meaningfulness and candor.
> These rules come from the guy with three wives who had his little teen > messengers running around in hot pants and bare midriff s on his ship. > Anyone who is not brain damaged see any irony there?
> Aaron moved on to tie it in with how sexual information -- both from > auditing or revealed in forced sec checks for 2D violations -- can be > used to extract obedience or hold someone in fear, binding them to the > cult.
> He explained how if a non-Scientologist tells a member of the cult > something, and that person asks a question about it, or it comes up as > some kind sec check as a doubt, then they are not only required to > reveal who that person is and what they said, but the members is > afraid to have contact with any outside person, because it will just > result in having to undergo sec checking and punishment.
> You don’t need a move to Guyana Bulgravia when you have mind-slavery > like that going on.
> That Aaron admitted to enjoying the control, power over a person, and > even making them afraid and hurting them. And admitting how that often > screwed him up on a number of levels, sexual included, is pure > honesty. That's some karma. Scientology doesn't work, at least in the > Sea Org.
> Once you are turned into a robot, put in one of these administrative > positions, to work long hours “to get the job done” and just make > others “get the job done,” there’s so little love and tangible > satisfaction, that person’s only feeling, that they are human at all, > is when they hurt someone or instill fear in them. When you are turned > into a machine, that is the only feeling left.
> Pretty much everyone who isn’t saintly has the potential to do that, > given the right circumstances. It is called being human.
> Let’s go back to another totalitarian group, one which took it much > further in disposing of the low toned “quietly and without sorrow,” > thinking they were clearing the planet.
> A teen in 1936 goes through Hitler youth, because his father is a high > ranking SS official. When he graduates from high school, his father > decides his son should join the SS instead of the Army. He thinks it > may be safer for his son, keep him away from battle fronts. The kid > does his share of dirty work, including work where he learns some > heady details about the extermination camps.
> Before the war ends, he finds he can’t take it anymore. He’s been > assigned to do something more ghastly, or just gets fed up, and he > flees to England and goes to the press or to Parliament and starts > testifying to the horror he got wrapped in.
> Not only did this not really happen during the war, you’d be hard > pressed to find members of the SS or Gestapo who confessed or admitted > to guilt, gleeful or otherwise, after the war. Instead they were > all...just following orders.
> So, think of Hubbard’s war to defeat the evil psychs and clear the > planet, and Aaron is coming out before it is over, not leaking drips > and drabs between detours to Mahalia Jackon and St. Francis, but > spilling a boatload of secrets.
> Aaron is telling everything he knows. Compare that to Rinder for > goodness sake. What’s he owned up to, about two or three things, out > of hundreds he could talk about. Nothing of a personal nature.
Rinder is, in my view, far worse off than Marty. Even though he's delusional and supercilious, he at least says something and allows some adverse commentary through (to which he replies with huffy insults). The other day he referred to "Aron somebody," whom he'd never heard of. Now he says he never heard the name Aaron Sexton, with an E. I just asked whether he'd heard the name Aaron SAxton, with an A. He will most likely erase it, but he'll have to read it before he does.
> I understand Aaron, more than I understand Monica P. for example. > Monica, smart and with the opportunities she had to continue her > education, doing RPF in the engine room, undergoing humiliation > ceremonies. And with parents wanting her out of the cult…
There's a compensating factor: Monica was on a boat out in the middle of the ocean. That's the ultimate milieu control. Aaron at least had some occasional and secondhand contact with the outside world.
> Aaron didn’t have any of that going for him. He was trapped. Now he’s > expressing some very personal feelings, and to anyone who is > emotional, and sympathetic, his testimony is going to resonate.
> Heber J., after accusing Dennis of being on drugs, on the set of the > interview, when asked something about Scientology, he went into some > bizarre speech about all the love it has given him for everyone. > That’s after he’s attacking the CAN lady, attacking Dennis, acting > like a loon about his mother being insulted.
> Now is that what DM, Marty, and Aaron were really like in the Sea Org, > or is it more like Aaron says it is. People have very shaky > relationships, because you can’t get too close, or you’ll be reported > on. So you just throw yourself into your work, like a machine. It's > not like you can get away from it, by going home to your Sea Org wife > and being a human being...the dysfunction carries through there too.
> Was Hubbard full of “infinite kindness” as Joe Urqufart claims, or was > he the guy on the taped phone recordings, blowing his stack because > the girl got the wrong damn map, and issuing orders about espionage > and hauling in the money.
> By “infinite kindness” Joe Urqufart explains that Hubbard had a lot of > faults, but people will forget all those -- about him being a > compulsive liar etc., but his tech will be used to save the planet…
> > I read your f'n story twice Larry. Give it a rest.
> > Aaron segued from draconian rules on sexual behavior imposed by > > Hubbard as a means of control under the guise of a moral code -- I > > don’t think the Victorians were as hung up about masturbation and > > petting as Hubbard -- to how it affected his adult sexuality. It was > > an admission of courage, meaningfulness and candor.
> > These rules come from the guy with three wives who had his little teen > > messengers running around in hot pants and bare midriff s on his ship. > > Anyone who is not brain damaged see any irony there?
> > Aaron moved on to tie it in with how sexual information -- both from > > auditing or revealed in forced sec checks for 2D violations -- can be > > used to extract obedience or hold someone in fear, binding them to the > > cult.
> > He explained how if a non-Scientologist tells a member of the cult > > something, and that person asks a question about it, or it comes up as > > some kind sec check as a doubt, then they are not only required to > > reveal who that person is and what they said, but the members is > > afraid to have contact with any outside person, because it will just > > result in having to undergo sec checking and punishment.
> > You don’t need a move to Guyana Bulgravia when you have mind-slavery > > like that going on.
> > That Aaron admitted to enjoying the control, power over a person, and > > even making them afraid and hurting them. And admitting how that often > > screwed him up on a number of levels, sexual included, is pure > > honesty. That's some karma. Scientology doesn't work, at least in the > > Sea Org.
> > Once you are turned into a robot, put in one of these administrative > > positions, to work long hours “to get the job done” and just make > > others “get the job done,” there’s so little love and tangible > > satisfaction, that person’s only feeling, that they are human at all, > > is when they hurt someone or instill fear in them. When you are turned > > into a machine, that is the only feeling left.
> > Pretty much everyone who isn’t saintly has the potential to do that, > > given the right circumstances. It is called being human.
> > Let’s go back to another totalitarian group, one which took it much > > further in disposing of the low toned “quietly and without sorrow,” > > thinking they were clearing the planet.
> > A teen in 1936 goes through Hitler youth, because his father is a high > > ranking SS official. When he graduates from high school, his father > > decides his son should join the SS instead of the Army. He thinks it > > may be safer for his son, keep him away from battle fronts. The kid > > does his share of dirty work, including work where he learns some > > heady details about the extermination camps.
> > Before the war ends, he finds he can’t take it anymore. He’s been > > assigned to do something more ghastly, or just gets fed up, and he > > flees to England and goes to the press or to Parliament and starts > > testifying to the horror he got wrapped in.
> > Not only did this not really happen during the war, you’d be hard > > pressed to find members of the SS or Gestapo who confessed or admitted > > to guilt, gleeful or otherwise, after the war. Instead they were > > all...just following orders.
> > So, think of Hubbard’s war to defeat the evil psychs and clear the > > planet, and Aaron is coming out before it is over, not leaking drips > > and drabs between detours to Mahalia Jackon and St. Francis, but > > spilling a boatload of secrets.
> > Aaron is telling everything he knows. Compare that to Rinder for > > goodness sake. What’s he owned up to, about two or three things, out > > of hundreds he could talk about. Nothing of a personal nature.
> Rinder is, in my view, far worse off than Marty. Even though he's > delusional and supercilious, he at least says something and allows > some adverse commentary through (to which he replies with huffy > insults). The other day he referred to "Aron somebody," whom he'd > never heard of. Now he says he never heard the name Aaron Sexton, with > an E. I just asked whether he'd heard the name Aaron SAxton, with an > A. He will most likely erase it, but he'll have to read it before he > does.
> > I understand Aaron, more than I understand Monica P. for example. > > Monica, smart and with the opportunities she had to continue her > > education, doing RPF in the engine room, undergoing humiliation > > ceremonies. And with parents wanting her out of the cult…
> There's a compensating factor: Monica was on a boat out in the middle > of the ocean. That's the ultimate milieu control. Aaron at least had > some occasional and secondhand contact with the outside world.
> > Aaron didn’t have any of that going for him. He was trapped. Now he’s > > expressing some very personal feelings, and to anyone who is > > emotional, and sympathetic, his testimony is going to resonate.
> > Heber J., after accusing Dennis of being on drugs, on the set of the > > interview, when asked something about Scientology, he went into some > > bizarre speech about all the love it has given him for everyone. > > That’s after he’s attacking the CAN lady, attacking Dennis, acting > > like a loon about his mother being insulted.
> > Now is that what DM, Marty, and Aaron were really like in the Sea Org, > > or is it more like Aaron says it is. People have very shaky > > relationships, because you can’t get too close, or you’ll be reported > > on. So you just throw yourself into your work, like a machine. It's > > not like you can get away from it, by going home to your Sea Org wife > > and being a human being...the dysfunction carries through there too.
> > Was Hubbard full of “infinite kindness” as Joe Urqufart claims, or was > > he the guy on the taped phone recordings, blowing his stack because > > the girl got the wrong damn map, and issuing orders about espionage > > and hauling in the money.
> > By “infinite kindness” Joe Urqufart explains that Hubbard had a lot of > > faults, but people will forget all those -- about him being a > > compulsive liar etc., but his tech will be used to save the planet…- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Lawrence needs to re write his story. It is very hard to understand and also gives no insight on what was going on mentally- which makes everything that happens to him quite meaningless.
Simply getting a native English speaker to edit it would help a great deal.
> > > I'm still reeling about all the revelations in this. Since I can't > > > seem to change the title from one about Marty's shirts where his name > > > is spelled wrong I've created this new thread.
> > Just finished watching all 7 parts > > This is huge.
> > The wheels are falling off the fraud dba scientology.
> > Arnie Lerma
> Aaron Saxton, after having watched his 7 segment interview > is just another sociopathic Sea Org escapee. He is no better > off in or out of the cult. He has a violent type of character about > him that it is apparent does not even appeal to his female > inteviewer. He is constantly expounding upon sex like as if' > he is a sexually repressed individual. Well if that is the case > the go find himself a nice girlfriend and that should clear that up.
> People like Aaron get into Scientology because they are > looking for answers and then they leave because they > claim to have found the answers they were looking for.
Aaron had cult member parents who forced him into it. Are you mentally ill or just retarded?
>Anne Frank, of Diary fame, also wrote extensively on her sexual
feelings, which were more detailed in an updated version that was
>released around 1980. I thought Aaron was eloquent in describing how
totalitarian cockamamie can pervert a young person's normal sexual curiosity and damage its development. Let's get it straight who was being the total nutcase about sex, using it to control, intimidate and blackmail members.Making policies about it. Doing sec checks about it. It was Hubbard. Out 2D for jerking off. Holy Xenu, Hubbard was
>one twisted nutcase.
It makes we wonder what happened to Hubbard's comments about sex being fun and there being nothing wrong with masturbation. They seem more like organisational issues rather than doctrinal ones.
>I'm sorry Larry but your comment shows you are a weird duck. Of
course, I picked that up from the epically weird story on your website as well. Everyone's story is important, including yours, but I'm
>telling you as an outsider to cuckoo cult, Aaron's is ground breaking
in its honesty, candor AND content. This story, as he told it, is going to shake the very foundation of the cult and how it operates. I have not seen anything quite as powerful in the hundreds of videos
> > > I read your f'n story twice Larry. Give it a rest.
> > > Aaron segued from draconian rules on sexual behavior imposed by > > > Hubbard as a means of control under the guise of a moral code -- I > > > don’t think the Victorians were as hung up about masturbation and > > > petting as Hubbard -- to how it affected his adult sexuality. It was > > > an admission of courage, meaningfulness and candor.
> > > These rules come from the guy with three wives who had his little teen > > > messengers running around in hot pants and bare midriff s on his ship. > > > Anyone who is not brain damaged see any irony there?
> > > Aaron moved on to tie it in with how sexual information -- both from > > > auditing or revealed in forced sec checks for 2D violations -- can be > > > used to extract obedience or hold someone in fear, binding them to the > > > cult.
> > > He explained how if a non-Scientologist tells a member of the cult > > > something, and that person asks a question about it, or it comes up as > > > some kind sec check as a doubt, then they are not only required to > > > reveal who that person is and what they said, but the members is > > > afraid to have contact with any outside person, because it will just > > > result in having to undergo sec checking and punishment.
> > > You don’t need a move to Guyana Bulgravia when you have mind-slavery > > > like that going on.
> > > That Aaron admitted to enjoying the control, power over a person, and > > > even making them afraid and hurting them. And admitting how that often > > > screwed him up on a number of levels, sexual included, is pure > > > honesty. That's some karma. Scientology doesn't work, at least in the > > > Sea Org.
> > > Once you are turned into a robot, put in one of these administrative > > > positions, to work long hours “to get the job done” and just make > > > others “get the job done,” there’s so little love and tangible > > > satisfaction, that person’s only feeling, that they are human at all, > > > is when they hurt someone or instill fear in them. When you are turned > > > into a machine, that is the only feeling left.
> > > Pretty much everyone who isn’t saintly has the potential to do that, > > > given the right circumstances. It is called being human.
> > > Let’s go back to another totalitarian group, one which took it much > > > further in disposing of the low toned “quietly and without sorrow,” > > > thinking they were clearing the planet.
> > > A teen in 1936 goes through Hitler youth, because his father is a high > > > ranking SS official. When he graduates from high school, his father > > > decides his son should join the SS instead of the Army. He thinks it > > > may be safer for his son, keep him away from battle fronts. The kid > > > does his share of dirty work, including work where he learns some > > > heady details about the extermination camps.
> > > Before the war ends, he finds he can’t take it anymore. He’s been > > > assigned to do something more ghastly, or just gets fed up, and he > > > flees to England and goes to the press or to Parliament and starts > > > testifying to the horror he got wrapped in.
> > > Not only did this not really happen during the war, you’d be hard > > > pressed to find members of the SS or Gestapo who confessed or admitted > > > to guilt, gleeful or otherwise, after the war. Instead they were > > > all...just following orders.
> > > So, think of Hubbard’s war to defeat the evil psychs and clear the > > > planet, and Aaron is coming out before it is over, not leaking drips > > > and drabs between detours to Mahalia Jackon and St. Francis, but > > > spilling a boatload of secrets.
> > > Aaron is telling everything he knows. Compare that to Rinder for > > > goodness sake. What’s he owned up to, about two or three things, out > > > of hundreds he could talk about. Nothing of a personal nature.
> > Rinder is, in my view, far worse off than Marty. Even though he's > > delusional and supercilious, he at least says something and allows > > some adverse commentary through (to which he replies with huffy > > insults). The other day he referred to "Aron somebody," whom he'd > > never heard of. Now he says he never heard the name Aaron Sexton, with > > an E. I just asked whether he'd heard the name Aaron SAxton, with an > > A. He will most likely erase it, but he'll have to read it before he > > does.
> > > I understand Aaron, more than I understand Monica P. for example. > > > Monica, smart and with the opportunities she had to continue her > > > education, doing RPF in the engine room, undergoing humiliation > > > ceremonies. And with parents wanting her out of the cult…
> > There's a compensating factor: Monica was on a boat out in the middle > > of the ocean. That's the ultimate milieu control. Aaron at least had > > some occasional and secondhand contact with the outside world.
> > > Aaron didn’t have any of that going for him. He was trapped. Now he’s > > > expressing some very personal feelings, and to anyone who is > > > emotional, and sympathetic, his testimony is going to resonate.
> > > Heber J., after accusing Dennis of being on drugs, on the set of the > > > interview, when asked something about Scientology, he went into some > > > bizarre speech about all the love it has given him for everyone. > > > That’s after he’s attacking the CAN lady, attacking Dennis, acting > > > like a loon about his mother being insulted.
> > > Now is that what DM, Marty, and Aaron were really like in the Sea Org, > > > or is it more like Aaron says it is. People have very shaky > > > relationships, because you can’t get too close, or you’ll be reported > > > on. So you just throw yourself into your work, like a machine. It's > > > not like you can get away from it, by going home to your Sea Org wife > > > and being a human being...the dysfunction carries through there too.
> > > Was Hubbard full of “infinite kindness” as Joe Urqufart claims, or was > > > he the guy on the taped phone recordings, blowing his stack because > > > the girl got the wrong damn map, and issuing orders about espionage > > > and hauling in the money.
> > > By “infinite kindness” Joe Urqufart explains that Hubbard had a lot of > > > faults, but people will forget all those -- about him being a > > > compulsive liar etc., but his tech will be used to save the planet…- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Lawrence needs to re write his story. It is very hard to understand > and also gives no insight on what was going on mentally- which makes > everything that happens to him quite meaningless.
> Simply getting a native English speaker to edit it would help a great > deal.
On Nov 20, 8:58 pm, husk <h...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Aaron's account smacks of honesty, he held nothing back. He described > how he was both the master and the slave and the effect that had on > him. We now have the most complete story of what really occurs inside > the seaOrg. We now know that David Miscavage is not the problem. DM > is just a product of the system and if he were to be removed another > would simply take his place and carry on just as DM did. We now know > that the complete structure of Scientology must be disassembled.
I agree. I've taken the position that DM was just a product of the system, same one that Aaron explains, cult kid into victim, into Sea Org member trained to victimize others. And you end up being, as you said, master and slave, just as Aaron explains so well. DM has got quite a lot weight to bear, with fear too that it could come crashing down on him. Hubbard lived with similar paranoia
Was Hubbard happy in the end? Surrounded by loving family? No! He was cared for by alcoholic Pat Broeker and loyal zombie captive Annie. He had all these nervous Scilon attorneys and executives, flitting around through messengers, worrying about Hubbard doing something crazy, like leaving all of his estate to his family, instead of the cult!
Aaron speaks the truth. He suggests the top position could have been filled by anyone, and the system would have turned that person into something like DM. I think DM did quite an amazing job, at keeping this scam going, considering the facts: no "clear" no "super powers."
Scientology allows a lot of flexibility and control, to KSW, as the situation warrants, to extract maximum money or labor. Consider the premise that your thoughts and fantasies can be taken to be past lives, where you may have admitted to crimes.
Or. that for employees, your thoughts and fantasies are grounds for security checking and correction or punishment. Example: bad thoughts about Hubbard can land you in the RPF, breaking rocks. Or, wanting to leave the cult, warrants corrective measures. What are the corrective measures for? They are to keep you in the cult, or intimidate you enough so that you will not speak out. Or to saddle you with debts, so you won‘t leave.
It is the hat trick Hubbard performs. Shifting a person’s personal goals to the goals of the cult. Never is that trick more transparent to outside analysis, than when hearing how the Sea Org operates, from an expressive, articulate, honest person, who was on the inside, like Aaron.
Aaron is not only doing something special in talking about the shady and coercive things he did personally, he’s also talking about how he FELT when doing them. He talks about the process that led to him feeling this way.
He is not offering a shallow cop-out explanation, like:
“It was DM and his evil Black Dianetics!”
And Aaron expresses his disgust, anger and frustration at people like Marty who offer such ludicrous explanations, which garner credibility in a crowd that accepts Dianetics as science, as first introduced in Astounding Science Fiction magazine. It’s gotta be true right? It’s real science fiction. And it’s astounding! And Tom Cruise believes in it.
> On Nov 20, 8:58 pm, husk <h...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> > Aaron's account smacks of honesty, he held nothing back. He described > > how he was both the master and the slave and the effect that had on > > him. We now have the most complete story of what really occurs inside > > the seaOrg. We now know that David Miscavage is not the problem. DM > > is just a product of the system and if he were to be removed another > > would simply take his place and carry on just as DM did. We now know > > that the complete structure of Scientology must be disassembled.
> I agree. I've taken the position that DM was just a product of the > system, same one that Aaron explains, cult kid into victim, into Sea > Org member trained to victimize others. And you end up being, as you > said, master and slave, just as Aaron explains so well. DM has got > quite a lot weight to bear, with fear too that it could come crashing > down on him. Hubbard lived with similar paranoia
> Was Hubbard happy in the end? Surrounded by loving family? No! He was > cared for by alcoholic Pat Broeker and loyal zombie captive Annie. He > had all these nervous Scilon attorneys and executives, flitting around > through messengers, worrying about Hubbard doing something crazy, like > leaving all of his estate to his family, instead of the cult!
> Aaron speaks the truth. He suggests the top position could have been > filled by anyone, and the system would have turned that person into > something like DM. I think DM did quite an amazing job, at keeping > this scam going, considering the facts: no "clear" no "super powers."
> Scientology allows a lot of flexibility and control, to KSW, as the > situation warrants, to extract maximum money or labor. Consider the > premise that your thoughts and fantasies can be taken to be past > lives, where you may have admitted to crimes.
> Or. that for employees, your thoughts and fantasies are grounds for > security checking and correction or punishment. Example: bad thoughts > about Hubbard can land you in the RPF, breaking rocks. Or, wanting to > leave the cult, warrants corrective measures. What are the corrective > measures for? They are to keep you in the cult, or intimidate you > enough so that you will not speak out. Or to saddle you with debts, so > you won‘t leave.
> It is the hat trick Hubbard performs. Shifting a person’s personal > goals to the goals of the cult. Never is that trick more transparent > to outside analysis, than when hearing how the Sea Org operates, from > an expressive, articulate, honest person, who was on the inside, like > Aaron.
> Aaron is not only doing something special in talking about the shady > and coercive things he did personally, he’s also talking about how he > FELT when doing them. He talks about the process that led to him > feeling this way.
> He is not offering a shallow cop-out explanation, like:
> “It was DM and his evil Black Dianetics!”
> And Aaron expresses his disgust, anger and frustration at people like > Marty who offer such ludicrous explanations, which garner credibility > in a crowd that accepts Dianetics as science, as first introduced in > Astounding Science Fiction magazine. It’s gotta be true right? It’s > real science fiction. And it’s astounding! And Tom Cruise believes in > it.
I agree that it is the subjective side of the story that is generaly missing.
Scientology is so mad that most people cannot understand how sane people can believe in it. We try to explain about fair game and the RPF but this does not help much. How can these things go on in a civilised society? It is not an easy thing to explain.
The only way the average person can grasp it is to take them on a mental journey to see how it all feels. If they have imagination they will get it- and do something about it.
Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote: >Shifting a person’s personal >goals to the goals of the cult. Never is that trick more transparent >to outside analysis, than when hearing how the Sea Org operates, from >an expressive, articulate, honest person, who was on the inside, like >Aaron.
>Aaron is not only doing something special in talking about the shady >and coercive things he did personally, he’s also talking about how he >FELT when doing them. He talks about the process that led to him >feeling this way.
There are different types of people in the cult.
Some would never do the kinds of things that DM, Marty, Rinder and Aaron did. Ie. torture and intimidate people while enjoying it. Brainwash others into doing the same.
But Aaron had little choice in the matter having been raised in a coercive environment. But the behaviors were so unnatural to him that he broke away and is endeavoring to break the bad habits. Like many of the exes.
DM, Marty, Rinder and their ilk on the other hand, reveled in the power they had over others and have virtually no conscience about their acts of brutality, intimidation and power-tripping.
You can see the anguish in Aaron's interview. Not for the things done to him ... but for what he did to others.
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